Recorded live at the annual meeting of the Legal Marketing Association in New Orleans, this episode features my conversation with Rachel Shields Williams, president of the LMA and director of client intelligence at Sidley Austin, where she has spent 17 years building out roles at the intersection of marketing, business development, knowledge management and data. Earlier this year, Rachel was named a recipient of ALM’s Monica Bay Women in Legal Tech Award.

Rachel and I discuss how AI is reshaping the work of legal marketers, and why she believes the marketing community is uniquely positioned to help law firms move past the “I’m curious, I want to click the buttons” stage of AI adoption to sustained, repeatable value. We get into the state of innovation in big law — including Rachel’s view that firms cannot use AI or money to “skip the canyon of despair” in change management — and why she thinks meaningful innovation often looks less like a headline and more like getting one percent better every week.

The conversation also covers the changing competitive landscape facing traditional firms, from AI-native entrants like Norm AI to MSOs and a resurgent ALSP market; the long-running debate over the billable hour; the four interrelated elements Rachel sees at the heart of every law firm’s data — documents, clients, matters, and people; and what firm leaders should be doing right now to stay competitive over the next decade. Throughout, Rachel returns to a theme about which she calls herself an “unapologetic humanist” — technology and process will keep changing, but the firms that win will be the ones that put the right people in the room first.

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Photo of Bob Ambrogi Bob Ambrogi

Bob is a lawyer, veteran legal journalist, and award-winning blogger and podcaster. In 2011, he was named to the inaugural Fastcase 50, honoring “the law’s smartest, most courageous innovators, techies, visionaries and leaders.” Earlier in his career, he was editor-in-chief of several legal publications, including The National Law Journal, and editorial director of ALM’s Litigation Services Division.